The man who led and inspired the most successful national Humanist group in the world just celebrated his 70th birthday. The son of a Pentecostal preacher, Levi Fragell was a full-time preacher himself before he was 20, and was considered the rising star of Norway’s evangelical movement. But his studies in philosophy and comparative religion soon led him to leave his church, and he eventually became a very successful marketing professional. Yet he found material success by itself unsatisfying and became involved first in politics and then in promoting Humanism.

Levi Fragell became leader of the Human Etisk Forbund (the Norwegian Humanist Association, NHA) in 1976 when it had 1500 members. Today it has 74,000 paid members. As soon as he took over leadership of the Norwegian Humanists, Levi went to visit the International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) for advice and help. He soon joined the IHEU board, and in 1987 became a co-president. For five years – from 1998 till 2003 – Levi was the sole president of IHEU. Through all these years he travelled to all continents to meet and encourage Humanists. He presided over numerous national and international meetings, published articles in magazines and books in many languages.

But one country holds a special place in Levi`s heart: India. After visiting India for the first time in 1989 he announced: “The future of Humanism is in India”. He has visited India eighteen times since then.

Matt Cherry, who has considered Fragell an inspiration since he met him in his early 20s, interviewed Fragell for IHN. They discussed Fragell’s life and work as a Humanist, as well as problems and prospects for the advance of Humanism across the world.

MC How did you become a Humanist?

LF It was a slow process, mainly inspired by rationalism. I could find no probability in supernatural explanations of reality and existence. And I realized that real ethics cannot be based on god-given commandments. In the end I could see no other source for knowledge or ethics than the human being and human fellowship. My university studies of comparative religion were helpful, and it is a mystery to me that it is possible to study the history of religions and still believe in one particular religion

MC Did your god-fearing childhood make you angry at religion?

LF Yes, but the anger has developed retrospectively. At the age of 70 I can more easily see and understand the damaging effect of believing in eternal damnation since my first day in Sunday school, living through childhood and never feeling quite sure of going to heaven if I suddenly died. Teaching a child that Jesus can read your thoughts and a teenager that he knows all about your masturbation is child abuse and a violation of a person’s integrity. It may be more damaging for your psychic health, self esteem and social behavior than physical violence.

MC What has been the biggest lesson you have learned from promoting the Humanist movement in Norway?

You can never establish a real alternative to religion without offering high quality ceremonies connected to birth and death.

LF In some places you also need marriage and coming of age ceremonies – depending on local culture and traditions. These ceremonies must have a structure and a content that is recognizable for participants, without strange and sectarian elements. The Humanist success in Norway is mainly due to this strategy, but we should be honest enough to admit that the majority of those who join us are first and foremost “ordinary” secular people, not able to defend a Humanist position in a theoretical or academic discussion.

MC How does the standing and influence of Humanism in Norway now compare to your youth, when you were questioning the faith you were raised in? And how significant is that difference?

LF When I went to school in my childhood every morning started with prayers and hymns. When I founded the Action against the State Church in 1970, 96 percent of the population belonged to the state church. Today, prayers are not allowed in the school, and Church membership is down to 80 percent. Less than 50 percent believe in God, and only a minority in the traditional dogmas. The social and political life in Norway is just as secularized as in the other Scandinavian countries. But this indifference makes it more difficult to raise interest for our alternative only on the basis of protests. If we did not have the ceremonies, we would now have recruited fewer new members.

MC After leading the Norwegian Humanists to such success you became active in IHEU and have worked for a long time on the growth and development of Humanism internationally. How successfully have you been able to translate the Norwegian success story to the international scene?

LF I don’t know if it’s my influence but more and more Humanist groups see the necessity of offering secular “rites of passage”. Actually I don’t see very much of my influence around the world, except for a few new groups and a stronger relationship between “Western” Humanism and younger and more dynamic Humanist activists in the Third World.

MC What’s been the biggest influence on your work as a Humanist: your background as a preacher or your career in PR and marketing? And why?

LF My Christian background taught me what religion is about, and it has made it possible for me to discuss religion in all arenas. This contributed to giving Norwegian Humanism a “face” in the roaring seventies, when we became a rather visible part of the cultural revolution in Norway. But the competence to use this potential organizationally was clearly due to my experience as a PR executive in private business as well as on governmental level.

MC How can Humanism market itself more effectively around the world?

The door opener for Humanism is, in my opinion, brave and provocative attacks on social and political systems that suppress people and violate human integrity and human rights. Our allies in such strategies, often minority groups, are potential Humanists.

LF We find them in atheist as well as religious dictatorships, and often in the continents outside of Europe and America. But because of migration and globalization our Humanist world movement should now realize that we have a challenge at our doorstep.

The brave efforts of Roy Brown, IHEU’s representative at the United Nations in Geneva, criticizing the lack of human rights in Islam, is an important contribution to a more visible profile for Humanism. But what about the Vatican and Catholicism that has had a growing influence among intellectuals? What about evangelical fundamentalism in USA, Africa and South America? What about Hindu-nationalism and suppression of Dalits?

MC Although you have emphasized the importance of a clear brand identity for Humanism – one word, with no adjectives, beginning with a capital “H”– the Norwegian group does not use “Humanist” in its title. Why is that?

LF I am determined that the Humanist movement must have a common international identity to be visible and to be taken seriously as an alternative to the world religions. All adjectives connected to the word Humanism cause confusion outside and conflicts inside our movement, whether they are “ethical” or “secular”.

But changing an already existing name of an organization is very difficult, especially when we attract thousands of new members every year with the name we have. In Norway we have changed the name of our lifestance from “human-etikk” to “Humanisme”, which means that we now are Humanists in all schoolbooks and official texts. Changing the name of the organization will hopefully be the next step, in solidarity with our sister groups in Scandinavia and Europe – who loyally have followed the appeal to identify themselves with our Humanist lifestance.

MC How do you respond to groups, like the Nansen Academy in Norway, that call themselves Christian Humanist and say that non-theists cannot annex the word “Humanism”?

LF The Nansen Academy has now accepted that we can operate with different definitions of Humanism.

MC What difference are the Internet and related new media making to the Humanist movement?

LF Oh, we can reach out to every corner of the world. We should develop a strategy to support students and

intellectuals in closed countries via the Internet, in local languages as well as English.

MC Don’t you think the so-called New Atheist authors – Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett and Harris – have had more success promoting atheism with their bestselling books than the Humanist movement has had with decades of organizing?

The New Atheists represent the most important contribution to freethought since Bertrand Russell.

LF Even in Norway I meet young people who have changed their view on religion after reading these books. It is up to us to be there and tell them what the next step should be. Dawkins and the others woke them up. We should tell them where to go.

MC What can Humanism learn from this success?

LF We must dare to provoke society when the ideological power structures are harmful to fellow humans. Actually, it should be an obligation.

MC The Norwegian Humanist association just published an article by the Humanist philosopher Julian Baggini, arguing that “the new atheism gets atheism wrong, gets religion wrong, and is counterproductive.” Do you agree with Julian that the New Atheism is counterproductive because it encourages the public perception of atheists as belligerent and therefore makes it easier to marginalize us?

LF We cannot be more marginalized than we are in most countries. I do not agree with Julian Baggini at all. Of course there is a lot in all these books I do not agree with, either it is the descriptive parts or the language. But that goes for Bertrand Russell, Robert Ingersoll, Mark Twain and Thomas Paine as well. But where would we have been without them?

MC Do you think perhaps this form of assertive criticism of religious beliefs appeals more to people like you who come from a very fervent, or fundamentalist, form of religion?

LF Perhaps, but I do think the main appeal is caused by a natural rationalist leaning. Some of the younger readers I meet are fed up of supernatural claims and ridiculous practices and inhuman ethical codes.

MC On final question. Looking back over nearly four decades in the Humanist movement, what has given you the biggest sense of hope and excitement?

LF There is not one big event, but hundreds of inspiring experiences. Many of them are connected to my eighteen visits to Humanists in India. Another was to meet young Humanists in Uganda, who had learnt about Humanism in school textbooks where they read the chapters about all the world religions and the chapter about Humanism, and decided that Humanism was what they preferred. They then contacted the British Humanist Association – where I believe a young man called Matt Cherry replied to them with information and encouragement! – and soon started a Humanist group in Kampala. Today they are one of the strongholds for Humanism in Africa.

Matt Cherry is the Main Representative of IHEU at the UN in New York